Curse

Cuilan · May 24, 2009, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

99.9% useless in PvE, accept it.

Not very good math. Most groups can use a mesmer just as much as a necro. Not saying either are better, but both get the job done well. Mesmers aren't usless at all and it seems you're just trolling.

maxxfury · May 24, 2009, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Of course.
AP enables you to do things that shouldn't be possible. It's one of the most broken things in the game right now.

And dont we just love it :P mmmrawr

Ratson Itamar · May 24, 2009, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Culian

Mesmers aren't usless at all and it seems you're just trolling.

Can't believe I'm writing here again, I might be trolling after all. Though I wasn't at first. The guy had a question and I answered it. A single fanboy lured me to a response by flaming my ENTIRE post, every single thing I've said. Want to criticize someone? Look in his direction first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodiacFear

I only said that necros are more useful for general PvE. You seem to forget about the elite areas, where mesmers are superior to necros.

Zodiac, you mean memsers (may be, I don't farm so I'm not sure either way) are more popular than necros in FARMING elite areas, not completing it in the normal way. But, to be fair, have a look at UWSC team again, mesmers are not wanted at all. That's to my knowledge, the best profitable run in the game. But in general team farming, they're more wanted. It's true.

But the real big difference between the two is the ability to solo farm, you can't even begin to compare the two. If you try then it will be obvious that you're just a dumb fanboy. I may like necros more than monks in PvE but I will never say that necros can farm just as much or more (like you're saying) than monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodiacFear

If i count the total amount of necros and mesmers in the current records in the 5 main elite areas (Urgoz, Deep, DoA, FoW, UW), I see 2 necros and 13 mesmers.

Wait, wait wait, I've just read your post again, and you said that in those 5 groups there're only 2 necros...Well you need to go back to the first grade and learn how to calculate 1+1+1+1... Urgoz - 1 necro. The Deep - 2 necros. DoA - 0 necros. FoW - 0. UW - 1 necro (0 mesmers). What about VS? - 1 necro (0 mesmers). And what is it, a pissing contest? You don't just compare the quantity, you also compare profits. That one necro in the sea of sins is more than enough to get you in a UWSC group in matter of seconds.

BTW, look how you crawled back to just one point of advantage for mesmers and it's team farming. So unless you're in a PvE (might even need to be specialized in farming) guild then you're screwed with failing PUGs. Of course that then you lose the PvP side of mesmers...which is...plain retarded.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Culian

Not very good math. Most groups can use a mesmer just as much as a necro. Not saying either are better, but both get the job done well.

Do me a favor, stop spouting such none senses. Mesmers don't...Look at the rest of my posts, I don't feel like writing the same thing over and over again. Even Zodiac the fanboy admitted that mesmers are not as useful as necros.

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Anymore 1 year fanboys want to lecture me about how mesmers are GODS and PRETTY and how much they would like to skit skit skit all over their faces?

Cuilan · May 24, 2009, 07:51 AM // 07:51

A necromancer fanboy showing his view to mesmer fanboys. This won't go anywhere fast since nobody has yet to prove anything.

Bill Clinton · May 24, 2009, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

@ Bill Clinton - I knew this kind of post will come, didn't expect for it to come this strongly. Let's address your flaming, one by one, like I learned from you. God this is going to be long and boring, I'm not going to respond to your flaming yet again so listen closely.

1. what dear Zodiac said :"Necros are more useful for general PvE (missions, vanquishing etc)" - That DOES make mesmers suck in PvE, HM included. "Bull, that makes no sense" you must think to yourself. Well, Necros out perform everything a mesmer can do, that makes them crap. No other way to put it when one can't shine in a single aspect more than another profession. Same goes for why Rits suck. Do you understand now why Rits complain so much?

2 +3 because I've already spent more time on you than I should have had. I already addressed that. Reread it. You probably won't understand it even after a second reading so I will have to repeat myself again...Empathy and Backfire suck because they're not AoE. To top that Backfire has a long recharge not that Empathy is spammable. They both cost a lot for a mesmer too. You: "Bull, again! mesmers can bring great e-management skills" - Necros don't have to = bar compression + many attribute points saved.

4. Most of the skills that you've mentioned don't reduce your skills recharge at all, they just dupe ONE. Plus, AP recharges every skill, don't compare it to recharge reducing skills. Like that wasn't enough, Echo wastes your elite and Arcane Echo is very expensive.

5. I didn't say that mesmer are not as useful as necros based on variety, they're just much much more boring to play.

6. "Additionally, Mesmers are the best at support via bonds" - How can I even begin to answer to that...

6.1.1. Bonds are mainly bad in general PvE.
6.1.2. They're not the best at that, have no idea what you think that. it's just dumb.
6.1.3. They're again outperformed by other professions - monks and eles.

6.2.1. Like I've stated to many times before, necros can do it better.

7. Not necessarily true. /Me are wanted, that's true. I'm not sure what a Me/ primary has to offer that a N/ can offer or at least compensate for. Not sure and since it's 00:50 over here right now I'm not fond of the idea of checking it up. I can live with the doubt.

8. False. How can you even say that...I don't even kin to answer that...comparing necro and mesmer in farming... Seems that I'm losing my patience.

9. Is that the end? Can it be? God, are you there, in the light? Waiting for me? Anet is Anet, have a good long look at Imbagon and tell me that Anet doesn't make a profession for one part of the game, or at least do it after the class is already there.

Finally, I don't hate people who choose mesmers over necro. There're not a lot of people in this world that I hate. But I do dislike when the blind is trying to lead the blind. Mesmers are unmatched in PvP and 99.9% useless in PvE, accept it.

Now, I take my leave. Any other fanboys, don't bother me further. You're going to give me a stroke. So for one more time for old time sake, mesmers suck in PvE. I know you hate hearing yourself thinking it, which makes it ten times sweeter. PvE Mesmers are crap, shit, outpreformed, dull and boring. Later.

1. Just because something is superior to something else in some aspect - it doesnt make everything else ineffectual and teribad. That kind of mentality is very narrow and poor, you know. Enjoy your tunnel vision of the game.

2. Well done for failing to provide an argument for the point given. Your original point was that necromancers can take advantage of faster attacking in hard mode. To which I showed you that so can mesmers. The non-aoe aspects, high recharges and costs are also there in the necromancer skills. Also you provided no argument for my second point. That all mesmer skills are armor ignoring. Dont pretend that you actually had something to say in retaliation.

3.Echo and arcane echo essentially half skill recharge. Learn to do maths. Assassins promise recharges all skills. So yes, it is a recharge reducing skill. So yes, I will compare it to recharge-reducing skills.

4.you might not realise.. but when a mesmer uses CoP for their damage, thats one skill on their bar. (two if you have no other mesmers for hexes). Thats six skills of variety. Its your fault if you're making it boring. Are all Random arena builds boring because they all use resurrection signet?

5. Bonds are used in all 600/smite builds. They can do it better because of signet of Illusions. No, necros cannot do it better. Also, strength of honor is seeing more use now, among other things. So no PvE is not devoid of bond useage. I find it funny how little you seem to know about this proffesion...

6. You should live with the doubt. Go to DoA some time. Look at all those pretty Me/N's.

7. Once again you fail to provide an argument. Way to look like an idiot there, dude.

8. Obviously you dont know much about paragons. Once you understand the class better, then make generalising comments about it. ANet does not make proffesions for one part of the game.

This would be so much easier to discuss if you werent such an idiot. Fact is, i'm sure no one is affronted by your comments to do with the mesmers abilities in PvE. You're just such a prick you get peoples backs up. Nice one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

A necromancer fanboy showing his view to mesmer fanboys. This won't go anywhere fast since nobody has yet to prove anything.

Too true. This guy is too ignorant to reassess his perceptions, and relies on anecdotal, subjective arguments that are strewn with his missconceptions about the game.
The funny thing is he is not even a troll. Just a fool...

upier · May 24, 2009, 10:40 AM // 10:40

You need to remember that party size is limited to 8 people.
And when we remember that the best thing a class has to offer is a PvE skill that a secondary can use at the EXACT same strength as the primary - it gets a bit iffy.
And FC isn't that important. It's cute at best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

And dont we just love it :P mmmrawr

(Btw man, where you been? Haven't seen you in AGES in the game!)

ZodiacFear · May 24, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

Zodiac, you mean memsers (may be, I don't farm so I'm not sure either way) are more popular than necros in FARMING elite areas, not completing it in the normal way.

Well, yeah... Mesmers are better for quicker and therefore more profitable runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

Wait, wait wait, I've just read your post again, and you said that in those 5 groups there're only 2 necros...Well you need to go back to the first grade and learn how to calculate 1+1+1+1... Urgoz - 1 necro. The Deep - 2 necros. DoA - 0 necros. FoW - 0. UW - 1 necro (0 mesmers).

I can admit that I counted wrong (missed the BiP in Urgoz), but so did you. No necro was used in the current UW record.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

And what is it, a pissing contest? You don't just compare the quantity, you also compare profits.

What matters in PvE nowadays is not simply completing an area - it's about completing it as fast as possible. I was simply trying to prove that if you want to get through an area quickly, mesmers are often the way to go.

We clearly don't enjoy the same aspects of the game. You may be all about the profit, but I mostly enjoy challenging myself and others by beating my own, my friends' or world records. Blazing through Deep in 12 minutes was one of the most exciting experiences in GW. I'm not saying that I understand our differences in playstyle and profession choice, but I'm trying to respect it.

Ratson Itamar · May 24, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodiacFear

Well, yeah... Mesmers are better for quicker and therefore more profitable runs.
...

What matters in PvE nowadays is not simply completing an area - it's about completing it as fast as possible. I was simply trying to prove that if you want to get through an area quickly, mesmers are often the way to go.

We clearly don't enjoy the same aspects of the game. You may be all about the profit, but I mostly enjoy challenging myself and others by beating my own, my friends' or world records...

How doing things slower goes hand in hand with maximizing profits? You seem like a good guy Zodiac so I think that you're not trying to bash me for pointing out the simple truth which is obvious for over years now, but to me it sounds like you're the one who's all about the profit. Which is absolutely fine with me. If you had read my other posts more carefully you would have known that I don't farm. So profits, big or small =/= my play style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cualian

A necromancer fanboy showing his view to mesmer fanboys.
This won't go anywhere fast since nobody has yet to prove anything.

There's a difference between us, I can clearly see the faults of the necro class and admit of their existence. Heck, every class has his downsides and upsides. Mesmers like some other class just happen to have the short stick and have more downsides in one area of the game than the other. Have a look at paragons for example. - I noted the para class with hope that you're not their fanboy too so you will have the opportunity the grasp the same concept about mesmers.

I've proven more than enough Cualian, I'm not going to repeat myself yet again for people who don't want to hear the truth anyway. Don't like me? Have a quick glance at the Upier's latest post. He points how the only advantages of mesmers over necros aren't significant enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

Enter nonsense here

Bill, I honestly haven't read a single word of your post. It's crap anyway. I'm not going to continue this so called "debate" with the likes of you. Have fun blowing off your steam online, I didn't take it personally. You obviously have some personal issues so I will let it be.

maxxfury · May 24, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You need to remember that party size is limited to 8 people.
And when we remember that the best thing a class has to offer is a PvE skill that a secondary can use at the EXACT same strength as the primary - it gets a bit iffy.
And FC isn't that important. It's cute at best.

AP+cop is me/a or a/me only, and thats the best way to abuse cop! But you know this! *rollseyes ill forgive that brainfart even tho, yes the damage is the same on any class

ll about spamability and dropping more yellow numbers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

(Btw man, where you been? Haven't seen you in AGES in the game!)

(And Not been about much for a while, yano busy RL and stuffs

)

Cuilan · May 24, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

You haven't proven anything. Just stated commonly seen things that doesn't correlated with a class being poor. Then you went and made up you own percentage numbers.

Ratson Itamar · May 24, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

I can't believe that you're still obsessed with the "99.9%" part. You're really hanging to thin air. It was just to emphasis how mesmers are so sub-par in PvE. I got lost , I don't know what most of you guys are even talking about anymore. You're all over the place, quoting and flaming. You won't be happy until I say that your little memser is a god. Not going to happen so drop it.

I think that this thread should be closed, who is the moderator in this forum?

maxxfury · May 24, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Pve is about dropping big yellow numbers and ghosting things asap!

So damage. For casters, the top rated builds would be IMO Ap-ae-cop and Ap+mop nuker, and the broken ROJ abuser(which ill skip past)

>Mes get a powerfull direct aoe nuke(with echo's) with AP abuse!
>Necs get a MONSTER hex that can output stupid amounts of yellow! with the right team. and again AP abuse.

So, both can dump lots of yellow? yes!

SR owns the hell outa Fc in pve, fact! Giving necros a big general advantage in normal pve play. Bar compression, attribute compression, inherent e-managment, not needing to spec a 2ndry for energy.

Does that mean the mes is useless? no. The vanilla mes has a pretty weak skill set for pve for sure, add in pve skills tho and its ability to abuse cop....thats the money shot. Kind of a one trick pony, but its a good trick!

If you wanna look at lower tier builds like SS and Vor ect, then the lines blur a little more, a different flavour of the same general stuff.

Bill Clinton · May 25, 2009, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

I think that this thread should be closed, who is the moderator in this forum?

I actually aggree with him. The guy has resorted to ignoring points that question his statements due to ignorance. This little debate isnt going anywhere, and the OP already said he's going to try out both classes and see for himself.
Close the thread and let Raston have his hissy fit via PM's or something.

Raccoon · May 25, 2009, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Mesmers are about to lose all value in elite areas soon. Cry of Pain will be nerfed and become even less viable, sending mesmers back to the far recesses of RA and HA.

MisterT69 · May 25, 2009, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Mesmers are about to lose all value in elite areas soon. Cry of Pain will be nerfed and become even less viable, sending mesmers back to the far recesses of RA and HA.

My favorite part about this post is the lack of any credible source whatsoever

I mean CoP is what's making mesmers shine in PVE atm. Until CoP is nerfed, mesmers will still be the most badass in PVE Elite areas.

upier · May 25, 2009, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

AP+cop is me/a or a/me only, and thats the best way to abuse cop! But you know this! *rollseyes ill forgive that brainfart even tho, yes the damage is the same on any class

ll about spamability and dropping more yellow numbers!

SF tank.
He aggroes everything on the map.
RoJ+CoP nuke.
That's the reason why farming teams don't need AP.

But of course - for your everyday outing with your friendly neighbourhood morons that are the Dumb-pack aka Alesia, Durnhy and Cynn AP comes on top. But when the rest of the team is so insanely bad - does it really matter what works best for the player?
What you want to consider is what the best options for the best team are. And that's pretty much the Discord discussion all over again.

Captain Bulldozer · May 25, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Look, despite what some might think, I'm not really biased towards or against either of the two professions in question here. I have a Me/N who I have used for many many things in GW (like legendary vanquisher, various PvP things, and just about anythin worth mentioning in HM except the deep). I also have a necro that I've done much of the same stuff with. That being said, there's really no question that for general PvE Necros are slightly better, all because of Soul reaping. To get that kind of energy pool mesmers need a skill or two to compensate, and lets's face it... pretty much the whole inspiration line is intended for the purposes of energy management. The downside is the Soul Reaping has next to no skills, so while you do get energy, you don't get much else for the att points... while specking into inspiration gives you a few nice options (mantras for example).

Still, mesmers are far from useless and are not significantly inferior to necros. Many new players find necros easier to play (myself included) but I find that mesmers can actually pack more of a punch when played correctly (yes even without CoP). All the other arguments here are kinda silly (seriously? Which is more profitable? Which can farm more? They're about equal on these fronts thanks to monk secondaries and skills like SS/VoR/Empathy) n my opinion, so as someone who's not a fanboy for either camp, may as well try both. I have a character of each profession and I play them all more or less equally. No need to say any of them are terrible as I have found them all to have specific uses and strengths that cannot be equaled in other professions. So again, try them both and go with whichever suits your play style.

maxxfury · May 25, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

SF tank.
He aggroes everything on the map.
RoJ+CoP nuke.
That's the reason why farming teams don't need AP.

Alas the holy trinity of farming skills! SF, COP, ROJ!

Perfected Shadow · May 26, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

If we had more hero slots, I'd always bring a VoR mes AND necros with me. Then I could watch HM skill/attack spam mobs (basically all of them are) explode.

Lishy · May 26, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Both professions are amazing in their own ways.
Nuff' said.
Let's stop this fucing childish argument and just accept the fact both professions are amazing.